LIFE RELIGION FAMILY

a place to come and discuss in peace, things of religion, life, and families

A conversation in progress with a Chaplain friend

Posted by tawodi on April 2, 2009


I made a post on another forum and thought it might make for interesting reading here;  The beginning premise of the questions are,   prevenient grace from God.

O.K.

The accusation of not being able to be objective wears a little thin with me and here’s why. For most of my life you could have called me an agnostic at best.

I studied, compared, analysed, debated, argued, fussed, fumed and finally said, the hell with it all, at about the age of thirty two.

Then came Jan 8th 1983….ah crap!!! talked to my counsellor I was seeing at the time, told him what happened and finally said to myself, O.K. fool, now you know what a nervous breakdown feels like!! And got on with it….that’s the way I am, for a whole host of reasons, quit B***chin and GET ON WITH IT!!!

I Kept reading though, checkin’ things out, still wouldn’t fully commit to ministry, though I did attend church sporadically from 1991 on and did work as a lay speaker and things.

2002 June, Bang!!! Slam!!! Dunk!!! Alright why me, and moreover, why NOT me?? Started REALLY checking things out and found out something….there have been literally hundreds of times when things that I did, made no sense what-so-ever for the person I was at the time, but they all each and every one of them turned out good and sometimes with totally unforseen outcomes that were NEVER seen that way before by me till I sought the answers.

And man, did I get some flipping answers!!!

Now, I don’t ask a single person to accept, or believe, the reality that I have found, because they have to find it on their own….but it is real, it is proven, and I live it every day and will till I die!!

AND!!! It was REASON that brought me here!!

So make of it what you will, I will not argue it, I will not defend it, it needs no defense, I’m not selling it to you, if you want it, it’s free!! Take it or leave it…your choice…..

Choose wisely….T

And, immediately followed that with this for others who participated.

Alright fellas I needed to say the forgoing first, because there’s more!!

The above is about me, and me alone. Others have had similar experiences and feel as I do. Some are not as erudite as I, so be it. Some are much more so….so be it.

There are others though, that have NOT done the work I and others have done. They listen to others tell them things and parrot those things as gospel and fall into large dark places and bring others with them. I don’t argue that point with you, or anybody else, because it is true.

Extremeism is ugly, destructive and deadly, as we all know and it is destructive in ways that are not violent but destroy the person, not the place, on personal levels not seen with the eye, in families, in society and in the world in general.

All of you also know I’m not afraid to call a spade a spade and point out along with you, those times when it needs doing, and I do more than just point fingers, as you all know as well.

But to stop the destruction, stop the violence, and stop the devision, you guys of no religious systems and I, are in my mind, allies and brothers in arms, as we once were, for real, in the world. I take pride in seeking justice with you in those times when it is hard to find, or simply overlooked because of biases that some possess and can not see beyond.

So, stick that in your hooka and smoke it!!

Angel/Devil T

And then my friend asked the following question;

Bruce…

Did you ever wonder why we only see the real prevenience when looking back. Sometimes over many years and in many situations, but always when looking back. Just some thoughts…
Be well…
CJ

And, the answer was………

Yeah C.J., I have wondered that, and don’t any longer.

What has to transpire, is the loss of surity of, “self”.

Some thing, or series of some things, must occur to rattle you down to your very core and force you to ask questions of your self, that are too frightening to ask under normal circumstances, or the need simply never arises within you to ask them.

That something does NOT have to be life threatening, destructive, or simply uncomfortable. It must motivate you, to do the work, to see who you REALLY are though.

You must be willing to stand naked in front of the mirror of your mind, SEEING the scars and how you got them, the pimples, the warts, ALL of it, and take each answer as it comes, honestly, no matter how disparageing to your self image it may be, no matter how painful the truth is, and incorporating it into who, and WHAT, you truly are.

I have learned, that very damned few of us will do that.

I learned it by the time I was twenty, I never could stand the illusions that people try to foist off on me, and could not stand excuse making on my part either. This has caused untold misery for me in my life, because if you have no illusions about yourself, others see that, and they understand that you will not tolerate theirs, about themselves. This is enemy making 101 in the social hierarchy that we have created in the world today. Perhaps it always was, I don’t know.

I mostly kept to myself, even when participating in so many different things, throughout my life.

The short answer to your question is, we always credit ourselves with too much, when citing our accomplishments, forgetting family, friends, co-workers, and too many others, that are forgotten along the way, that we learned from, took advantage of, or simply observed and copied, to achieve whatever it was, we have achieved.

Never mind giving credit to God, for the very life we enjoy!!!

I sincerely believe, that when people see how little it is, that they truly “control”, it is of a power to drop most to their knees!!! It scares the average person to their core, to realise the helplessness that each of us truly labors under, when we tout ourselves so highly, unthinkingly!!

Then when you see, as I have, the indomitable courage of the aged to face life on it’s own terms as the end come rushing toward them, it is the most humbling thing to endure as you witness it.

The posturing of the politicians, and the power that people ascribe to them, to control their existence is laughable. When you KNOW the truth about life. The atheists have, by and large, bestowed the fealty that you and I feel toward God, to men, politics, and themselves. It would be sad, if it wasn’t so futile and empty, becuase of it’s predictable futility.

Politics is the new religion of the twenty first century. It’s too bad that it is already showing itself threadbare and worn, as the politics through the ages, have shown them selves to be.

CLUE; the oldest continuous writings we have, are found in the Bible and almost EVERYBODY misses the point!!!

This is the story of human kind!! NOT how it was formed. NOT who God is. NOT what God wants!! BUT, the stories of HUMAN BEINGS and how they interacted with each other, and the things they SHOULD have learned about God, and didn’t, along the way. The stories always have a human protagonist don’t they? There’s a reason for that, the POINT, is how the HUMAN responded, NOT God!! God is consistant, even predictable, while through out the Bible man is not!! All the variables, the foibles, the frailty, the dishonesty, the thieving, murderous nature of us all, is exposed for all to see, and people concentrate on God when they ought to be examining themselves!! THAT is the point!! Self examinination and THEN, apply the lessons learned in the BOOK!

So, all in all, that is why we don’t see it, till we look back!!

T

As you can see there is some stuff here to think about that is of a personal nature for us all, as I said choose wisely!!

Rev. Bruce…………………………………….Tawodi

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